In the US, the ESRB ratings are voluntary self-regulation by the industry and aimed at providing parents some guidance. There is no law against selling M-rated games to minors -- in fact, every so often some state tries to pass such a law and it gets struck down as unconstitutional.

In other jurisdictions, selling Q3A to a minor (or even at all!) may or may not be legal and your mileage will vary.

In most developed countries, *use* of Q3A (or the editing tools) by a minor is not prohibited by law.

I think everybody here is mis-understanding the rating system. It is not illegal for someone under the age of 17 to play Q3A, it is just illegal for someone under that age to buy it. I just wanted to make that clear.

Why yes, Papo, AKA Dr. Quake.

And when you were that old, there wasn't even Quake. Hehe.

so wizzo now your 20 eh??hahaha

nice. *ahem* *Cough* ect. and 12 years old wow i think i didn't even know what quake was when i was that old! haha. Keep up the great werk there bud

But RedFive, it is a law. That's why the government invented the ESRB. Good point though, especially about The rating on a game is not to tell people "It's illegal, you're too young" but more something like "There's blood and guts and heavy duty weaponry; wussies beware !". But if it is a law, then it is either legal, or not. Right? I work with games myself Red, and know about Ratings and the likes so it is a law. A software store could be punished by government actually if it were caught selling to a minor (look at "adualt" sites. They have warnings, but do people follow them? No, but it is illegal right?)

Your tired, hehe, same here =)

Also, Nickster, reviewing over your comment; Just because it says MATURE, and if you are, mean you should play it. You could be mature FOR YOUR AGE, so thats what a 17+ # is placed above, to show what audience the developers made it for. I'm sure you are very mature for a 12 year old, it just implies for an older audience. BTW, im not here to make enemies, and I did enjoy your level alot; im getting a LAN together and plan to use it in 1 of our matches.

| Wiz |

When the game companies rate a game, it's like when a movie gets rated. Admit it, pretty much everybody saw the movie "First Blood" when not actually of age to saw a "Rated R". The rating on a game is not to tell people "It's illegal, you're too young" but more something like "There's blood and guts and heavy duty weaponry; wussies beware !".

And hey, compared to Soldier of Bloodfest, Q3A is a very TAME game! I prefer the over-the-top gibbing over "realistic" wounds any day !!!

Hey Octo, im "able" one might say, to play Q3, or any mature rated game. Look what I started =) 20 years of age to be exact Octo for your info =)

Look, I wasn't being biased or anthing (I downloaded the map and commented on it [liked it too]), I was just raising an issue here. Yes, it's true that software stores don't care who they sell to, but they should (they are just in it for the cash). THink of it this way: Nickster, you still have 5 years till it's "Legal" for you to play Q3.

I think it's great that new talents comes to the Lvl site, and I can't wait to see a new project from you Nickster.

It's not that Violent games will make you want to go out and kill someone, it's just Federal laws. Why do you think they put a (*)-Rating label on games? For looks? To warn parents or guardians. The ratings systems still aren't good though, as they don't warn very well.

To tell you all the truth, I was quite amazed at what I started, and got mixed reactions from everyone. I agree with both sides I must state though, being new talent coming (great new talent), but also with laws and ratings. I mean, if we don't follow them, whats the point of them?

I shorted this alot. I could post alot more, but it seems no one will probably see this, as it's been 2 days since the last post. Something I had to say in a short form.

| Wiz |

Amen brother !!!!

Ok, I might as well throw my opinion into the mix ( since everyone else appears to've done so ).It doesn't matter AT ALL how old a map author ( or, for that matter, an online player ) is - this is a level review site, not a debating society on social issues. But sure, mention the mapper's age if it's of interest - as here, when "precocious" would appear to be an apt term to apply. In a society where some states seem to think that automatic weapons should be easier to get hold of than games like Q3, or Heavy Metal albums... there's no real excuse for supporting a mindset of intolerance or exclusion. Aren't we all supposed to be on the same side here? How much fun would it be if the next U.S. Govt. decides to ban Q3 and its ilk, or if they allow individual states to pass laws doing the same ( thereby removing your Constitional rights, not that they'll portray it that way )? Whether through standard-issue Republican intolerance, or Gore's personal ill-informed crusading ( anyone remember Tipper Gore's little pet project, theRC, and their attack on Metal music? ) is irrelevant; we should all be supporting each other, not factionalising or excluding within our own ranks. You in the USA could all be only a couple of Supreme Court appointments away from institutionalised intolerance of all of this... Think on that. There will always be those trying to snipe away at what we do, so instead of marginalising Nickster as a "minor", welcome him as a burgeoning talent.

Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest, and hopefully make a point.

And 9/10 for the level, Nickster.

Hey, its da truth! But N-E-Way, I haven't downloaded your map, so I don't have anything to say aboot it.

Well, let's talk about your map.

I really like Cathedral of Chaos, well built, a good combination of textures... but most important of all, this map shows that you have an enormous potential, i think, and ... come on!, i wanna see your evolution. 12 years.. oh my god!

I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick here.

I am pleased that there is talent out there. I never said that games like quake corrupt the minds of young people, because we all know that they do not. I am simply making my opinion knowm, that is what these comment thingies are for.

Dang, it burns my butt when people say stuff like what Fubar's been saying. First, anyone who can make maps Quake (or any fps for that matter) ought to have enough brains to know that it's just a game and not go around killing people. Second, even though some people have killed with the influence of video games, think of how many people under 17 have bought 17+ rated games and NOT killed people? One more thing: That 17+ rating is a MATURE rating. So it really means that you should be MATURE enough to play the game.

Oh god, the 17+ thing? The fricking STORES don't care who buys it. I mean, if you want to stick buy it Fubar, well good for you, but just ignore these maps. Don't come here and tell Nickster you won't support him because you think it's wrong, just don't support him because it's wrong quietly

(Besides, the posts this topic is generating are gonna get more people in here anyways, aren't they?)

L8rs! Octovus

Fubar: the "youth" is better than some 20 year olds. He'll be a great mapper sooner than you think.

Furthermore, the LVL admins said they support mappers of ANY age. What letter of the word ANY don't you understand ???

I do not believe that games like this "corrupt", nor do I beleive that they promote violent behaviour, I was just commenting on the fact that the rules and regulations governing map reviewing are tightened to ensure that younger mappers and gamers find it difficult to get their work out into the community.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for new talent, from what I can see of the screenshot, this map looks very well done ideed, and I take my hat off to Nickster.

However, knowing that the author is a "youth" (for want of a better word), I will not download it.

If I am at all in doubt as to the age of an author, I will not download it. I am not the only person to take this view.

I don't think I am biased towards young map authors, I just will not support them.

And you're right, Tig. It is a parents responsibilty to bring up their child as they see fit, but if the likes of John Cash's kid, then god help us all!

Wicked setup for such a young artist. You clipped the sky a little low for my rocket jumping tastes but well done!

Keep lettin em rip and don't worry about anal-retentive people who can only say "DON'T"

Where would Mozrt be today if he listened to his nay-sayers who said he was too young?

Probably still dead but at least his artistic expression is still alive! Keep it up and just use a permanent marker to cover up any 17+ certificates on the game box! Those were only made by people who love to complain and pigeonhole ideas.

Personally i see mapping as an art form and i'll encourage it as much as possible, at any age, by anyone. I also see it as a parent's responiblity to bring a child up how they wish, therefore Q3A may have a 17+ (suggested) rating, but its up to parents if their child plays Q3A.

Fubar, I can't believe there are still people THAT close-minded. Do you see Quake as porn ??? The thought of a 12 year old mapper disturbs you that much? I've played Quake with my niece who's 9 and she got good quick because of her GoldenEye training. BTW, she kicks serious ass with the N64 controller. Does that make her totally twisted and perverted? Will it make her want to collect guns the way some red-necks do? No. Why? Because she understand these words: IT'S A GAME !!!

And worst of all, the map is a CLEAR EVIDENCE that Nickster knows what he's doing. He sees Quake as something constructive, while you see it as something destructive.

This map should not be on .:Lvl if the author is only 12.

Quake 3 Arena has a 17+ certificate, which means Nickster is breaking the law playing it. You should be ashamed of yourself Tig, from now on you should refuse to accept maps made by people who are under-age.

So now we're not mature enough? Grrrr...anyone with too few brains to

(A) Decide to go blow someone's head off in real life because they do it for fun in Quake
or
(B) Play Quake and other games often enough to cause problems in REAL life
are just as likely to be older as younger.

And if that was a joke..er..a little in-obvious. How old is you Wiz? =-P

L8rs! Octovus

14?? 12????? Ain't that a little young for Q3? *coughmatureratingcough* Ah well, as long as you guys pump out great maps like this, then we are all happy! I'm finishing up some of my maps as I speak, and I hope everyone enjoys them =)

8/10, good work Nickster.

ICQ: 57058334

the map will be done in 3 days i hope =)

And yes, Us mappers are a rare breed. We map all day, frag all night.

XTSGeneral: shhh.. don't blow our cover man.. us level designers are genius's =).

Sure XTS, what's your ICQ#? (my email is adrianlarose@home.com)

by the way nice map nick :)

hey im 14 and i started mapping at 13 it's not that hard you guys. All you have to know is your X, Y, and Z axis and from then on your imagination takes the rest. Im workin on a map as we speak that is nearing completion which will fit 8 peeps or so. Anyone wanna playtest it?

Man, It's a bit small and way too easy to dominate, but still great work in the architecture!

Can't wait for the new one for sure!

Just want to point something out to you "Old Foggies"..in the summer, us "kids" have a lot of time on our hands to work on this sorta thing. Which isn't to say I'm anywhere as near as good as Nickster ;).

One of my clan mates has produced a fairly good, fun to play map, but I've yet to see any curves in any of our concoctions..=-(

Sure it's predictable, but it's certainly the best of it's style yet for Q3A in terms of the placement of little things (like armor shards) and general finished feel. Nickster, how long did it take you to build this? Just wondering for a reference to my mapping *cough* not *cough* skills.

8 outa ten, and we all know how this style of map plays anyways: Good!

L8rs! Octovus (Aka young foggie ;) )

I say again, 12 ?!?! Damn, this map may be a bit simple and symetric, but it's a lot better than a lot of "first maps" I've seen! Hell, it's better than some RA3 maps !!! If this map is an exercise, I can't wait to see the next one. I'm giving it a 7; it's not perfect because of its simplicity, but gameplay and flow are there, and the author clearly shows he has taste for textures.

Way to go Nickster !!! Keep 'em coming !!!

12 ?!?!?! I'm 30 and my map-making exploits are two rooms and a corridor using Worldcraft for QUAKE 1 !!!

Nickster, keep up the good work and you'll be in Senn, MrClean and Lunaran territory !!!

More on the map later as I haven't even seen it yet !!!

12? Man, I'm 27 and can't do this...

:p

I just finished a larger non-symmetrical map with the q3dm6 theme. I don't think that the architecture is as good as this map, but the gameplay is probably better.

This level isn't particullary memorable, but it really is well done. I encourage Nickster to break away from symmetric design in the future, just because the gameplay is a little predictable in this level.

If Nickster can get an original layout going in his next level, you will love his next work.