even with the softening up of the power-ups this barely works as a ffa, and it doesn't work as a tourney at all. Reading the comments, I appreciate the author taking criticism on board. Nothing personal, but I'd skip this one altogether.

I just cant understand why someone with mapmaking skills would want to just stand there and shoot someone with the rg why he is loaded up with MH and RA

I agree that red skies are getting hackneyed - but this blue one just doesn't help the atmosphere in this map. Yup, purple would be better.

It's got the Gothis look and fell but is to small of a ap needed to be bigger more defined. But nice work.

I disagree. All the time red -or redish skies: is boring: I'm waiting for a grenn or purple or lilac sky.

Version 3 is definitely an improvement to the game play. Item location is much better. Secrets only make sense in 1 player games. In multiplayer, either (a) no-one knows it's there, in which case it's a waste; (b) everyone knows it's there, in which case it's redundant, or (c) some players know it's there, in which case they have an unfair advantage.

Other issues:

1. This map is always going to lag, but then so do some id levels. Just have to turn the resolution down a notch.

1. For a gothic map (with scary noises, yet) why the pretty blue sky? It really doesn't help the mood. In the open area you can practically feel the sun on your back. Something darker would have been better.

1. I'm impressed by the way the bots really do cover the whole map. The action is well spread out. This I like.

i like the 3rd version better it looks more professionally done with the better item placement, but why the removal of the secret, did it really matter that it was there. i gave the 2nd version a 7 so since this is better, it gets an 8, i just dont feel that its a must have map, sorry

Steinecke - If you don't like the extra sounds, just open kmldm1vX.pk3 with WinZip and simply delete all the .wav files. I haven't tested this but it should work, you might get a few error messages on the console.

well, sorry to say but my resolution is at 640x480 with default color thingy, i also use lightmap lighting, with geometric detail on high, texture filter is bilinear, texture detail is about 60% up the scale. my comp is a amd k6-2 450 (which runs at 550) with 64 mb ram (i know that sux) with a tnt2, all i can think of is more ram... whatever

I like the gameplay, I like the look, I like the way the bots are doing on this map: -but I hate the 'extra sounds'. They are ugly, they disturb listening for the enemy: I just hate them. Compared to the average ratings I give to functioning maps... it's a 9.

In version 1 & 2, shoot the corpse hanging on the wallspike in the hall near the stairs, and the door to a little secret room will open up in the opposite passageway.

There must be two dozen painstakingly placed HINT brushes in v2/3. Use r_showtris and you will see that I cannot make any more significant improvements to the VIS on this level. I know this for a fact, I spent two days doing the VIS alone and it's as good as it's gonna get.

If you're getting lag in the main hall, your graphics rig is not cutting the mustard. Try lowering your display resolution, 800x600 @ 16-bit works best with KMLDM1.

nice map, very laggy in the fog room, im not gonna comment on how to fix it since its been sed & done. but i do want to know, wheres the secret i didnt know there was one, and didnt really take the time to look for one, anyway i liked it pretty good, so i'll give it a 7, but u need to use more clip brushes!

(7)

Thanks for the feedback OozE!

Can you do me a favour? Please send a screenie of the problem area you mentioned below to snotman@planetquake.com. I'd like to know what's causing this so I can avoid it in the future.

Thanks!

hey snotman...I must say, I just downloaded the tourney ver. and with music just low, the sounds (originally kinda annoyed me) were purrrfect. This level is freakin greaT as a tourney. Too bad the tourney one wasn't the one u started with, as it would get more publicity I think. What with the flickering white dots in the RA room though (on the central platforms jump pad/front)). I don't think it's my card or anything. U know, white spots flicker on when u move to a certain position looking at it? other than that it's perfect, and the gameplay, imho, is right on! I had a blast playing doom on nightmare (he's more of a crack shot with the damn rail than Xaero, it seems).

Good job!!

My "friends" nicknamed me "Snotman" in the days of Doom 2 because I was always player color green and a hard man to put the finger on ... try as I may I just can't shake it! ;-)

How DID Doom2 assign player colors?

Very Nice work Kevin. Look forward to the next.....

Or get tig to update it here! better yet!@

Snotman (ugh, hate that name)..:)

Ur link doesn't work yet..well, the link works but u can't download the tourney ver. yet.

can u send it to me?

I have posted a (final!) version 3 of KMLDM1 at my site www.planetquake.co...rx/download.htm. This version includes the changes to the item layout proposed below which make it more suited to Tournament play. I have links to all three versions of KMLDM1 (which can now all coexist) so you can take your pick. Tourney anyone?

I can sympathise with you Snotman.

Making maps and getting no feedback must be real bummer, even if it's just from another mapper rather than a player.

You know, like all the mappers on the beta section of this site.

HINT HINT*

No problem Rat_Scabies. Let's not leap to any conclusions in future huh?

Re Challenge-World, if you ask me it's a farkin' good idea, even if they are only doing it to promote their own competitions. I think this approach could also be used to make FFA, TDM, and CTF maps too.

The single most frustrating part of being a Q3A mapper is getting little or no feedback about one's maps. Without feedback, it's impossible to improve.

I think pairing mappers and players is a good start, and I would be happy to team up in the future with a group of players or a clan to produce any kind of map that those players want.

• HINT HINT HINT *

www.challenge-world.com/maps/

I do apologise for my rather rude comment Snotman.

I had no idea you allowed mappers to send you their maps for feedback.

As for this Challenge-world business of trying to get mappers and players together, I'll believe it when I see it.

I dont doubt that the mappers will try their best but as for the players...dont make me larf.

Also, Snotman. My Frames started lagging in the main room with the fog 'o death while playing bots. I'm a better player than a mapper, (actually I don't map) so I wouldn't know how to fix it. It was annoying to have the Rail but not be able to use it because the screen got choppy. Another thing is these people seem to be biased against health. I didn't mind it. Only I belive it should be broken up more. I would reiterate everything else, but then it's already been said. One last thing.....maybe some round(ish) rooms instead of all those damn 90 degree angles. This is Q3....it's organic man. wow. yeah....groovy

Ork from Mork - i've removed your ad as it had nothing at all to do with the level, if you have news that you want to share with others please try Qmap;

www.planetquake.com/qmap

Having not played your map I can say it has nothing to offer.

heh, jk

Since you asked for tips from players here is a good one that no mapper seems to think about, put items in the middle of hallways and rooms, why always stuff shit in a corner?

Jesus christ this box is fucking small, who the hell designed this page a midget with walleye vision?

Snotman is really interested in comments and critics. Whats wrong with that? It only shows, he's grown-up.

What's your point Scabies? I have approached/been approached by several mappers to beta test their levels which I did gladly, www.planetquake.co...rx/3dcondm1.htm, and the offer still stands.

Personally, I want feedback from PLAYERS not mappers. Why? As a player, I suck. No if's, but's, or maybe's. I need feedback from seasoned Quakers who know what works and what doesn't.

The Lvl forum exists for both players and mappers to comment. It is not exclusive to mappers, and if players want to help do something about the problem being reported here www.challenge-worl...m/comments.php3 then I suggest that you take advantage of this forum an use it to it's maximum potential.

After all, the goal here is to produce shithot maps, and who knows better what's hot and what's not than the players themselves?

Peace.

Hey Snotman.
I see you said your map was up in the beta section for 3+ weeks.
How much feedback have you given to the other mappers there ?

This map rocks the most

Thank you Niptlar and Patridiot for your input, it is appreciated. It's not too late to make this map a must have level!

So if I've got it right, this is the "magic formula";

• ditch BFG
• replace BFG with powerup team
• ditch secret
• ditch Mega, replace with RA
• move armor shards to replace RA
• ditch the holdables
• swap GL with PG
• replace GL with LG
• ditch all +5's in the main hall
• change 2 x +50's to 2 x +25's in courtyard

Remember that the item layout has to suit 2-8 players FFA as well as Tourney! If Tourney play can be better suited by a completely separate map, that can be arranged.

Please post your feedback and ideas people, tell me what you want!

Never put shards near a Body Armor. Period.

The two holdables are kinda silly to have. You put too much emphasis on having a RL when you have to rocket jump to get the cool stuff.

There is too much health on the bottom of the main room; it should have been more like one 25 health on each side.

Near the holdable items, there are two ammo clips; it is too much work for players to bounce off the platform and go all the way to a clip (much less both of them).

You probably also don't need to put in six weapons, but that is just me.

I liked the older version better, sadly enough.

Rocket launcher placement is good but the 2 50 healths that can be found both to the left and the right have to go. reduce it to one, or two 25's. The platform to the right (coming out of the doors toward RA) with the collumns is great...too bad you can't double jump in Qauke 3 :(. I would put the plasma where the grenade launcher is now, there is plasma ammo right there which some might see as a problem but because the corridors twist alot it isn't the most useful weapon on this map. You should have to go more out of the way to get the plasma gun which is why this place is better. I don't know where you'd put the GL, just leave it off as far as I'm concerned (or MAYBE in the room witht he YA). I like the lightning gun better than plasma but I guess thats more of a personal (LPB) preference. A good place for the plasma ammo, if you want to keep it away from the gun, would be where the shotgun ammo is in the pit room (takes 5-6 seconds to run there which is about right on a small map). Put the shotgun ammo right next to the gun, because it fires reatively slowly, ammo isn't so much of an issue with the shotgun...not a good primary weapon for 1 on 1. GET RID OF THE BFG!!! Get rid of the 5 healths in the YA room. Get rid of some of the random 25 healths. Get rid of the shards by the RA. Ditch the Mega. Map's too small for a mega, YA and RA. About the RA: You'll notice that in most good maps (dm13, ZTN's Blood Run) the RA is in an out of the way place so that people actually have to think about it to get it. You have to go for the RA, it shouldn't fall into your lap. For this reason I suggest putting it where the BFG is. The RG and the Plasma (lightning would again be better) will keep people from camping that platform, not to mention the teleporter destination. The jump pads will make the trip over risky (which is why the teleporter location, with this change would be paradoxicly good and bad). A safer trip to the platform costs a rocket jump, but its nice to have the option. Also, maybe instead of having a jumppad from the lower level over to where the BFG currently is

Cool, thanks Tigger. Ministry of Death was in the Beta Section for three weeks+. Do you remember striking a rude comment from somebody's beta page? Well that was my page! Can I get any second opinions ppl? Can anyone do a 1on1 or small FFA LAN test on KMLDM1?

"Ooooooh, this promises to be fun!"

did you run this map through the beta section of LvL (link top left of this page);

lvlworld.com/beta/

Thats the best way to get feedback on any pre release level.

However, a lot less health, no secret, replace BFG with re-gen/medikit/power-sheild teamed entity (on normal respawn times) lose the personal teleport or move it out near RL. But then the plasma (which is a powerfull weapon) is still easy to get.... might be a good start... would really have to try it out and see. (you may also want to lower the volume on the sounds :])

Yep, this is where I thought MOD would fall down. (I'm a better mapper than I am a player :) This is where I really need the FEEDBACK ppl!Calling all Quakers! How can I improve the item layout folks? PLEASE post your thoughts and ideas and I will make v3 that must have level! I will credit in the readme anyone that makes a suggestion that I use in a future release. Tigger? Any suggestions?